Part Of Getting The Robe Is To Say I'm Part Of Spreading The Dharma
Nanda Nina Lynch
Nanda has taken her seat as a newly ordained priest. Fugen Roshi ordained her in Jun Po Roshi’s lineage as the first priest for Dragon Heart Dharma. Worth noting, a woman, not a a man, is the first recognized by Fugen Roshi. Nanda’s relationship with Jun Po Roshi goes back many years. She and I trained together in both the Mondo Facilitator Program and the current clergy training. Nanda is a seasoned traveler, having lived in many countries, not to mention deep roots in Boulder, Colorado. We caught up on Zoom about a month after the ordination. I think you’ll enjoy the fruits of our conversation.
Ekai: I'm very excited to be with my friend and colleague, Nanda Nina Lynch. You were recently ordained, so now we're colleagues as Zen priests in the Hollow Bones Lineage. Can you tell me about how you got involved with Zen?
Nanda: When I was about 14 years old. I worked in the library. I was always looking for God in different things. Zen books really attracted me. So I read them, though I didn't understand any of it. I don't know what it was about that word Zen. Anyway, much later I was in Japan, and I had a friend who was a priest. We used to have meetings, kind of like counsel. I used to go to the temples, but I never really did a whole lot about it. Something really touched me. For me, Japanese culture that is very Zen, in the language, in some of the music, and in the way people treat each other. So I was just fascinated by that.
A 52 Year Old Jun Po Roshi
I met Jun Po Dennis Kelly Roshi when I enrolled in a therapy training with Sanchi Reta Lawler and her then husband, Thomas. It was a Buddhist based therapy training and even though the word Buddhist was in there, I just thought I wanted to be a therapist. After the lots of things I had done, I just tuned into this training, and went along for about two years. One of the participants was this really tall guy who was into yoga. He had a big voice, and he was friendly. That was Jun Po. And I just thought, well, he's got some kind of other name. I really didn't pay that much attention to his background. Then someone said, he's a Dharma heir. I didn't even know what that meant. He's some kind of Buddhist guy, and he's really connected. He's got some kind of status.
He did teach us, offer sitting meditations. And then he offered to meet with him. Now I know that was Dokusan. Then, he was a just colleague, a student. Over time, I got to know, he is something to Zen. And that was it. When I had my 40th birthday, he bought me this wonderful Tara. He was just a great guy, fun and a little bit wild. We kind of kept in touch on and off. Then at some point I started to get interested in this Zen thing. So I read up a bit, and at some point I had this thing that I needed to take refuge in the Buddha. So I went off to Japan and met with Kanzen, the priest that I knew there. We went for coffee. I think I said something like, I need to take refuge. I don't know why. I didn't ask anybody to explain, but then somewhere inside felt, no it's not with him.
On another trip, after I'd seen this woman on YouTube, an abbot and she was absolutely wonderful. She taught me The Heart Sutra. She had a temple in Kyoto. We had tea, and she gave me her book, and said I can come train with her. But then inside, I recognized, she's not the one. That’s when I recognized that I needed to call Jun Po. He promptly invited me to a sesshin. So I went for a week-long sesshin. I told him I wanted to take refuge. He said, “that’s great, but you need to do another sesshin.” So that's what happened. That’s when I meet and worked with Engo Michael Jackson. He became my witness for the Jukai Ceremony.
Ekai: I knew you lived in Japan and in Boulder. That's where the Alaya training was. I believe you were a student at Naropa as well.
Nanda: I was a student there. What happened was with the Alaya training it was official. I could actually practice therapy as a therapist, which I did for a while. I was registered as an unlicensed therapist, which meant that I could practice, but there were certain things that I couldn't do. So decided I should be a licensed therapist. I went to Naropa for two years. It was great.
Ekai: You are originally from UK, but you also lived in Japan. So the other question that made me wonder, did you learn the Heart Sutra in Japanese?
Nanda: I did. Because there's something about hearing, you know, hearing it in Japanese, that's lovely. It's very suited toward the Japanese language.
Ekai: How long did you live in Japan?
Nanda: It was about four years altogether. I still have the good fortune to be able to go back. I worked later in the airline industry, and I passed as a Japanese speaker, which meant I got take that trip quite a lot. I go back as much as I can still. I absolutely love it. I went through a lot about leaving. I so appreciate the Buddhist quality of Japanese culture. I mean Zen and Buddhist.
Ekai: Returning back to the story, a while later you went back to Jun Po who became your teacher.
Nanda: Yes, Jun Po was wonderful. We discussed becoming a priest, but we decided to wait. It’s only recently that I wanted to become ordained as a priest. I'm actually glad that it didn't happen until now. Things happen the way they do anyway, so it's all perfect. Anyway, after a certain amount of time, I came across this teacher named Mooji, who lives quite close to where I live now. I became quite involved with his community for a while. It's very different. He does his own thing and his own interpretation. I remember saying to him I really had just got into Zen. when I met him, so what the hell was I doing there. He said, don’t worry about it, so I didn't. and now, here I am again. I'm back into Zen. I still am connected to Mooji, but it's not my path.
Ekai: Is that how you ended up in Portugal, where you live now?
Nanda: Not really. My husband is a musician, and he played in a lot of music festivals here in Alentejo, and so we used to come here a lot. We have really good friends here who we had worked with. We had something called a Fearless Planet, which was based on The Work of Byron Katie. And we met this good friend through that work. I was involved with this for many years. And I'd say, oh my goodness, you know, we could live here. Wouldn't that be great? So we investigated, and very quickly found a house that we could buy that was very affordable. We do a lot of spontaneous things, my husband and I, and here we are.
Ekai: So how long have you been there? Alentejo, Portugal.
Nanda: Just over seven years. That’s where Mooji’s ashram is. I can walk there in about half an hour and drive there in 10 minutes.
Ekai: But you turned around and found Zen.
Nanda: I went to India twice, and served for Mooji. I love India, and but there was something that wasn’t exactly what I wanted.
Ekai: Indeed, as evidence, you were recently ordained by Fugen Roshi, a dear friend. How did that come about for you?
Nanda: Maybe four years ago, there was some kind of tug to deepen my own practice. I felt motivated to deepen my own practice though I also had the feeling that I wanted to serve without becoming ordained. Anybody can serve and deepen their practice. We don't all have to become priests, but there was more of a pull. So I started with Hollow Bones Zen. Umi Dan Rotnem was great, a talented young man and a scholar. I worked with him, though it wasn’t exactly the right fit. I go by intuition, so I didn't continue. Then Jun Po died. That was a big thing for many of us. There were a lot of things to work out. We missed him and there's been a lot of sorting out. I did the Mondo Zen Facilitation training. More recently, you had talked to me about some people and a priest training, and I don't know, it just happened. This ship was coming, and there's was a place on the ship for me. So I got on that boat, and we've had a great year. Many people have been involved in. It's been a great training. I got on that boat is is totally the right thing. It’s only been a month since I was ordained with Ming Po Larry Matthews and Hosho Don Koehler. Now it’s like, What does that mean?
We have a weekly sit here, a small group and one of them said, “what do I have to do now? Do I have to bow to you?” I said “don't be so silly”. I met somebody in the coffee shop in Boulder the other day, who knew I was going to All Nations Gathering Center where the three of us were ordained. He asked “how do I treat you now?” They're kind of teasing but it is interesting and a great learning, I've been feeling into this new role.
Ekai: So after so much Sutra study in our clergy training year, what are you learning about Zen? How has it changed for you?
Nanda: I don't know whether it's changed. It's more just like an unfolding, and it continues to be so. I didn't understand it well, but now I understand it a bit more. It's a continual learning. Mondo Zen was huge for me when I first did it and it gave me a missing piece. So rereading the Sutras, I think now I understand it, so that's why I really like to offer that teaching. It's not just to be of service. It's that there's a a discernment about being in service of compassionate awakening, That's not just any kind of service. It's a particular service. I mean, you're relieving suffering. And relieving suffering doesn't necessarily mean giving everybody whatever they want.
Ekai: Absolutely.
Nanda: There's ongoing learning about how things land within the individual. There's also a larger sense of wanting to bring this to others. It's not just passive, it's active. I'm sharing it.
Ekai: I love that. I can relate, and I appreciate what you are saying. So you got ordained. We had a lovely ceremony in South Dakota at Koto Washi’s retreat center. It was a very special place for the ordination. Any thoughts on your directions, on where you're going to take things?
Nanda: Well, actually, these past few days, I'm looking to have a website inviting more people to come to our weekly sit and I am looking at having longer sitting periods - a weekend, a half-day, or a day. I really want to offer Mondo Zen Facilitation. I can do it online or in-person. I've done a lot online, and it's great. Yet how wonderful is it when we can sit together, and I can reach out and hold somebody's hand, you know? I do value that. If there's some local people, we, can have in person sessions, how wonderful. And online also. So that's one thing I also love. If I can be of more support and active with Shining Bright Lotus and Dragon Heart, that's a start.
Ekai: I know you have a little mini Sangha already, so you're not starting from scratch. You don't just sit in your regular practice period. You do other interesting things.
Nanda: We dance. and I've been thinking about that too, because I was thinking, we do kinhin also, it's good to let people know of the traditional practice. We do zazen, we do kinhin, and but everybody loves the dance. We do half an hour sitting, and then I'll ring the bell, and then my husband plays three dance tracks, and we dance, and then after that, we sit down and do another half an hour meditation. I'm very open to this world as we are now.
You did to me, you're part of this larger collective. I mean, Shining Bright Lotus is part of Dragon heart Dharma, but you live in a place where there's not a lot of Zen, right? If you look at it historically, it’s not proselytizing. It’s saying the Dharma has to spread. Nature has to move the seeds, either through the wind or through a bird, picking it up and dropping it somewhere else. The Dharma spreads. So part of getting the robe or the rakusu is to say I'm part of the spreading. So I bring it somewhere else. I've been part of that. You find yourself being in a community and then all of a sudden you're an outpost somewhere else, and you start to generate your own community, a different style of adventure.
Ekai: I'm looking forward to seeing where it all goes. You bring interesting and unusual seasonings to your style. I look forward to seeing what flavor it ends up being as you find your way. So thank you very much.
Nanda: You are welcome. Thank you very much. Great to be with you.